In last month’s edition of Pallet Enterprise, we featured an article on Mike Paton, an EOS Implementer®, and the presentation he gave at the NWPCA Annual Leadership Conference. The following afternoon at the conference, a panel of industry professionals who have recently implemented the Entrepreneurial Operating System® (EOS®) had an open Q&A about their experiences. Moderated by Mike Paton, the panel consisted of three leaders in the industry. Bob Wenner is the president (retired) of Pallet Service Corporation in Maple Grove, Minnesota. His company has been implementing EOS for the past six years. Justin Hegstead is the general manager of Challenger Pallet and Supply in Idaho Falls, Indiana. Doug Jones is the vice president of Pallet Machinery Group in Tappahannock, Virginia. Justin and Doug have been utilizing the EOS tools and principles for about a year.
How long does it take to implement EOS?
Doug Jones: We started EOS last summer. Our implementer told us it could take up to two years. Maybe even less if you get rolling really well.
Justin Hegstead: We’re eight months in, so I would assume it’s going to be about two years. I would say at eight months, we operate the way you are supposed to with EOS meetings. But every time we come back and have a meeting with our implementer, it’s a whole new line of things where we need to improve.
Mike Paton: Our job is to teach all of the tools in the EOS toolbox so that a leadership team can migrate them into the organization until they learn to facilitate a conclusion better than they were able to do in the past. So, getting that to happen inside your organization, to the degree that you’re going to be satisfied with the work, on average takes two years and 10 full session days.
Did you hire an EOS implementer to help you, and why did you feel it was better for you and your team to have an outside person helping?
Doug Jones: I feel like if I did it myself that I would insert my own opinion about what the EOS principles mean for the company. Reading a book and getting the necessary paperwork to start the process would not have been as efficient or as quick as hiring an implementer who knows what they are doing and keeps your company on track. A professional implementer also ensures that you make progress the right way.
Justin Hegstead: The beauty of EOS is that it is simple. If you pick up the book (Traction or Get a Grip) and go through those resources, I think you could do it. However, having an outside implemen-ter provides another point of view. It’s hard to see how your systems are broken once you are inside them. Having an implementer provides you a coach to give new ideas. Implementers share things they’ve done with other companies. Also, many of them have their own business experience with EOS. You’re committed when you sign up with an implementer. There’s a cost, and you’re putting in time away from the office going through these meetings. So, for me, I think we’re a little more dedicated to making sure we get everything rolling and working. We’re a little more accountable.
Bob Wenner: Our driving force was that if we did it ourselves, which I think you probably could, the time it would take to do it would be more than if we had somebody come in and help us through the steps. It is simple. But to have the discipline and to be able to deal with a lot of issues versus having someone from the outside come in, an EOS implementer really helps condense those issues that can get you bottled up and speeds up the process.
Anytime you introduce something new to a business, there are growing pains. What was the biggest challenge you had when implementing EOS?
Bob Wenner: I would say that the biggest challenge that we had was me.
I hate meetings, which a lot of us do. I expected everyone in our corporation to be able to read my mind because they should know what I need. We read the book before we looked at implementing it, and I knew it was going to cost us some money. I knew it was going to take some time. I knew I didn’t like meetings, but I also knew that we didn’t have real clarity. We said that if we’re going to do this, then we’re going to have to make a real commitment. Failure isn’t an option if we’re going to do it. We’re going to go all in, and we’re going to make it work. I think that’s the attitude we had going into it, and we’re thrilled that we did it. It’s the best thing we ever did.
Justin Hegstead: As you get started, look at those core values and talk to the rest of your team. Be honest as you evaluate whether you have the right people in the right seats. Being real and authentic led us to realize that one member of our leadership wasn’t the right fit. We thought we were the right people. But taking a closer look, we replaced a mid-level manager. The new person fits those core values better, and the entire situation has improved. It was difficult; but in the end, it was really important to make a switch.
Doug Jones: I would say the biggest challenge we’ve had since implementing is now running our level two EOS meetings every week with people who haven’t been doing EOS at all and trying to make them understand. Also, doing the quarterly meetings with everybody and letting them know how the company is doing and why we are doing EOS. Some of these guys had no idea why we are doing it. Trying to bring everyone in the company into the EOS mindset is probably our most difficult challenge.
Where have you found it’s difficult not to revert to old habits? Did you struggle with any of that?
Bob Wenner: When you get involved and you see just how well it allows you to operate and become more efficient, you don’t want to revert. Then it’s just commitment. You make sure that everybody’s on the same page at this point in your journey with EOS. It’s easy to stay on it because your productivity is getting better, your efficiencies are improving and operations are running more smoothly than in the past.
Justin Hegstead: I echo what he said, but I also want to say that the level 10 meetings on a weekly basis have been key. Having those religiously, at the same time every week, has made us accountable to each other. Everybody in our office has enjoyed those because there’s better communication. Plus, we’re holding each other accountable, so I think that’s one reason we are not going to revert back to old habits.
Doug Jones: I would say if we did anything, it would take us a while to get out of the discussion phase of the process. I think that the more we learned about it, we got better, then reverted a little back, and I think now we’re just nailing it. That’s exactly where you want to be, so we’ve gotten really good with open and honest discussions, no elephants in the room. Getting through those things, making decisions, and going on to the next one.
Can you talk a little bit more about that visionary/integrator split and your journey through the top-level, defining roles around that visionary gap?
Doug Jones: The first day, it’s very easy. After you go through the chart, everybody on the team, once you’ve heard the breakdown, you’ll know exactly who’s going to sit in the role and what their role is with our company. Ours is a family business, so it’s pretty easy to know who ends up being a visionary and who is going to be an integrator. But still, we went into the meeting without saying that I was going to be the integrator, and Greg was going to be our visionary. You learn what these roles are and what the responsibilities are. It very quickly becomes clear who’s going to sit in what role. Everybody has a say and expresses their opinion on that issue.
Bob Wenner: I think we knew early on who was going to be the visionary and the integrator. But I think it was easier too because before we really got into the mud, we defined and really got into what were the roles of these people. Before we got into who is the right person, we first asked, “What’s the job responsibility? What are the roles?” We defined what those were and then saw if we had someone in the organization that checks the boxes. Do they get it? Do they want it? Do they have the capacity to do so? If they got it all, well there’s your answer. You’ve found your integrator. You’ve found your visionary. Then you go through that with your management team and go down to the next level.
How do you help employees with different personalities and skill sets work cohesively?
Bob Wenner: For everyone to work together, you all have to agree to be open and honest. When you truly trust your team, you all work together cohesively. One of the things that we found out is that you have to have clarity on where the company is going. Once you get your core values set up, that tells you who is going to blend with that company and are they going to do what you need them to do.
Mike Paton: Personality types and core values are two different things. So, one of the things I want you to think about is you know a lot of engineers are more introverted. They like mathematical problems, very linear thinkers, etc. The way they are hardwired from a skillset standpoint has to be different from the way someone wants to work as a collaborative member of a team. That’s okay to have personality differences. When you are crafting your core values, think about what are non-negotiable standards for your organization. What is just a personality quirk that you can live with, and make sure to distinguish between those two.
Some of you have talked about having to transition certain people because they didn’t have a seat on the bus, so to speak. How did you know that?
Justin Hegstead: For people who are getting defensive, they just have to understand that you’re all in it. You’re all going to do the work. It’s not that they have to do it, and you don’t. You have to buy in as well. As long as you’re showing that you’re committed to it, then there shouldn’t be much of a push back from them. If you’re doing the things necessary to make the company better, then I would think they would fall in line to do it as well.
Doug Jones: I think with our leadership team, if you’re committed to these core values and to this process, at some point, if somebody is the wrong person and we’re starting to realize it, you’re either going to work with him to help them improve, or if they don’t want that, then they eventually find a way out, or they find a way to go work in a different position.
Bob Wenner: One of the things that I love about the system more than anything else is that it makes it perfectly clear who is fitting and who isn’t. Do you have cancer in your group someplace? Whether it’s very upper management or it’s cascading down through your entire organization? It takes a lot of the mystery out of whether this person is in the right seat or do they even belong in your business.
Editor’s Note: You can learn more about the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) and find resources and worksheets at www.eosworldwide.com. More specifically, you can find Mike Paton’s page here: https://www.eosworldwide.com/mike-paton.
